A play that debuted off-Broadway in New York has made its way to Charlotte, as "...what the end will be" explores three generations of gay, Black male family members living together.
Written by Mansa Ra, the play highlights men dealing with their vulnerabilities and grappling with their sexuality. WFAE’s Elvis Menayese spoke with the play’s director, James Webb, about how his real-life experiences are reflected in the show:
Elvis Menayese: James, thanks for speaking with me. This play centers on three characters. We have 18-year-old Tony, who is just opening up about his sexuality; Maxwell, who is Tony’s dad; and, Bartholomew, known as Barth — the grandfather. Tell us a bit about Barth and his son, Maxwell, and what’s going on in their lives?
James Webb: Bartholomew has stage four bone cancer. And so he is nearing the end of his life, and he is in tremendous discomfort and pain. And Maxwell doesn’t want to lose him. And so, Maxwell, his son, is doing everything he possibly can — spending tremendous amounts of money on personal caretakers, on new equipment — to preserve and maintain the life of his father.
Menayese: Very early, the audience is exposed to conversations around homosexuality and identity that can be tough for some people to talk about — whether that’s because of cultural or religious beliefs. At times, the play uses humor and comedy to delve into these difficult conversations.
That’s especially clear in one scene, when we have 18-year-old Tony get caught by his dad sneaking a school friend from his room. The moment causes a heated exchange between the pair, while the grandfather embraces the moment with humor:
“The one with the Spandex — that’s your type,” Bartholomew says.
“You like boys!” Maxwell said.
Bartholomew replies, “Look at us. I guess apples don’t fall too far from the tree.”
“I thought that Naja was your ...” Maxwell said.
“I told you a million times — Naja is my best friend,” Tony said.
“I thought you were just being discreet! You should have told me,” Maxwell says.
“I just did!” Tony replies.
“How long?” Maxwell asks.
Bartholomew steps in to lighten the moment. “Now, this is the kind of moment that makes a place feel like home,” he says. “Come on, champ, give me a hug! Bring it in.”
Menayese: Why do you think humor is used to explore this sensitive personal moment? And what role does it play throughout the play?
Webb: I don't really think that the playwright was aiming specifically for humor. I think what the playwright was aiming for was authenticity. And oftentimes, when Black men are in spaces where they don't have to code-switch — where they can just be themselves, speak in their own vernacular, and tell their own specific truth without really feeling like someone is over their shoulder watching and critiquing — that truth and authenticity can be very funny.
Menayese: This play also highlights, despite moments of friction, Black fathers being in their children's lives instead of being absent. That’s something the media and TV shows like "The Fresh Prince of Bel Air" sometimes portray. Do you think the play aims to change people’s perception of this stereotype?
Webb: That trope of of fathers not being in their children's lives — that does happen, yes. But, you know, I could say for me it certainly wasn't my experience. It's not the experience of my father. It's not the experience of my uncles and their children. It's not the experience of my cousins and their children.
The truth is that in my family — particularly because I actually have a matriarchal family — the women wouldn't allow that. My aunts and my grandmother wouldn't allow such a thing to happen — that my dad or my uncles, or my male cousins would not actively participate and have a role in their children's lives.
So it's the truth that's out there. You don't have to combat the truth.
Menayese: I understand you and the actors spoke to Mansa Ra, who wrote the play, and posed questions to him on whether this is a fictional story or if it's based on real moments. Can you give us an insight into what he told you?
Webb: In the very first week of rehearsal, we had a Zoom call with Mansa Ra, and that was one of the questions the actors asked: Where was the origin of these characters? Where did they come from? And each of these people — including the caretaker who's in there — each of these people represents somebody from Mansa Ra's life. Some of these experiences are real experiences.
Mansa Ra talked to us about being in the home, and his grandmother — she came home to transition — to move on. So he was there to experience that transition, from her passing away and going on to glory. And so he used real-life experiences as a father for the material for this particular play. So, he's telling the truth.
Menayese: James, you’ve spoken in the past openly about being a gay Black male. I’m curious whether, in your life, you can relate to any of these characters' experiences or emotions they have as they navigate their sexuality, masculinity and lives?
Webb: I can relate to all of them. There are aspects of all of them, and I can. But I would say Maxwell, more so, is somebody who I relate closer to.
You know, I know what it's like to have a potential person who that I might want to date and that person surprises me — because they may start to get comfortable and they may start to act more flamboyant around me than how they initially presented themselves. And I've noticed how I have to start adjusting and thinking, 'Hmm, how do I feel about this? Am I OK with this? Am I open to presenting this person to my family?'
Menayese: I watched the play recently. The actors' performances left audience members standing and clapping with smiles on their faces. Others were in tears. Leonard Armstrong, a Black man who watched the show, said it was key for people to come watch the play to help break down barriers. Here's what he had to say:
Leonard Armstrong: "There's still some stigma in our community about sexuality and coming out and being open and loving who you are — regardless of your choices, or how you feel, or whatever that is. So I think it's important."
Menayese: James, why do you think there’s a stigma in the Black community when it comes to someone opening up about their sexuality?
Webb: I don't know — because it's probably multiple reasons, and they probably vary according to each person. It's probably not just one thing. It just baffles me, though.
I'm gonna take, like, the church. I was raised in the church. I grew up in the church, and I loved going to church. I probably went to church five days a week, for some reason or another. And it is sometimes a known fact that somebody that they know and they love and they respect — and they like being around in that church, identifies as gay.
And yet, demeaning sermons are still said. People are laughing at someone's sexuality. They're not embracing that person's side of who they are. They're not allowing that to be shown.
Menayese: There might be some people who end up going to watch this play and can relate to some of the characters' experiences — whether that’s Tony, who’s opening up about his sexuality, or Barth, who's dealing with cancer and has lost a loved one. What would you hope that person takes away?
Webb: I hope that people will love on themselves more, you know — whether that's a person who's queer and they're still closeted, or they don't show up authentic in every space that they walk into. I hope that they will choose to be themselves. And I hope that people who are around, people who are queer, will begin to acknowledge that more.
Menayese: This play is also taking place at a time when DEI initiatives are being cut, and there are attacks on the LGBTQ community. What’s it like putting on this type of show when, in the background, there’s uncertainty over the future of these types of efforts?
Webb: This is an American story about American men who live in the South and who operate and move and have their being in this country. Yes, they happen to be Black, they happen to be gay — but it's an American story. And as an American story, it has a right to be within the canon. It has a right to exist in the catalog of American plays, and it has a right to be heard and a right to be seen.
I also say that we need to continue to normalize that Black people in America — gay people in America — are Americans, and they have a right to have their story told and heard. And so the language around it being a risk or language around it having to be brave work, I just think we need to get rid of that kind of language.
This is an American story. It's a part of the fabric — or the quilt — of America, and it deserves its place on the stage.
Menayese: James, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you. Thanks for your time.
Webb: Thank you.
You can watch the remaining four performances of the show, "...what the end will be" presented by the Three Bone Theatre, at the Arts Factory in the historic West End from Thursday to Sunday, with tickets available online.
