JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
The House is gearing up to vote on the Senate's version of Trump's sweeping tax and spending bill, but some House Republicans have voiced skepticism about the proposed cuts to Medicaid and the trillions of dollars the bill would add to the deficit. With days to go before the July 4 deadline President Trump imposed, it is not clear whether Republicans have enough votes to pass the Senate version of the bill. Joining us now for more is New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler. Welcome back.
MIKE LAWLER: Thanks for having me.
SUMMERS: Congressman, I know that you were among a number of Republicans who headed over to the White House today as Republican leadership continues to push to get this bill through the chamber and to President Trump's desk by end of week. Tell us where you stand on the legislation at this hour on the bill passed by the Senate.
LAWLER: Well, we're still working through it. Obviously, right now, it's in the middle of a rules vote. And then ultimately, we'll have debate and final passage. I know leadership is continuing to meet with some of the members of the Freedom Caucus. I've had discussions with the White House for a number of days surrounding Medicaid and particular on the rural health fund and how we can use that to support our hospitals throughout my district and across the country. And so we're continuing to, you know, have conversations on that process moving forward once the bill, in fact, is passed.
SUMMERS: What was the message that you heard from the White House and from President Trump today?
LAWLER: Well, the president obviously wants to get the bill passed, No. 1. This is the largest tax cut. And failure here will result in the largest tax increase in American history, and it would be a disaster for the economy. Obviously, you know, extending the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, the doubling of the standard deduction, the enhanced child tax credit, new provisions like no tax on tips, no tax on overtime and enhanced senior tax credit to offset taxes on Social Security. And of course, something I fought for in this bill, lifting the cap on SALT, which we were able to secure - a $40,000 cap, which is 4x the current $10,000 and a massive tax cut for hardworking and middle-class families across this country, but especially in New York. So obviously, the tax provisions are critical, border security, increased domestic production of energy, strengthening our military and really starting to bend the curve on spending. Over the next decade, we're projected to spend $86 trillion as a country...
SUMMERS: Right.
LAWLER: ...As a federal government. And we're talking about 1.6 trillion in savings over the course of the 10 years. That amounts to about 1.8% of overall spending. So, you know, as we start to bend the curve with $2 trillion deficits - you know, everybody, Republicans and Democrats, need to get serious about tackling our debt.
SUMMERS: Well, let me just...
LAWLER: We're 36 trillion in debt.
SUMMERS: Well, let me just jump in here. The Congressional Budget Office found that this spending bill would add roughly $3 trillion to the deficit over the next decade. So to your mind, are you concerned about growing the nation's debt? It sounds like you are. What should be done?
LAWLER: So CBO has consistently been wrong in its pronouncements, including seven years ago when they undercut revenue by a trillion dollars on the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which we now know has produced the largest revenue that the federal government has ever seen. The question is, how do we start to rightsize our spending, where we're running $2 trillion deficits? And what you're seeing is, over 10 years, a reduction in spending by $1.6 trillion. You're going to see economic growth - you know, 2%, 3%, 4% - over the life of the bill, which is going to be critical...
SUMMERS: OK.
LAWLER: ...As we grow our economy and start to move things in the right direction. Reducing our deficits and reining in our debt. This is a big challenge...
SUMMERS: OK.
LAWLER: ...And something that's going to require both parties to really focus on in the coming decade.
SUMMERS: I want to just jump in here because earlier you mentioned some of the concerns that you've been discussing, including those around health care and Medicaid. And there are estimates, according to CBO, that nearly 12 million people will lose health care coverage, including Medicaid coverage, if this bill becomes law. Congressman Lawler, given that roughly a quarter of the people in your district in New York, some 200,000 people, are on Medicaid - that's according to KFF - are you concerned about what the cuts enshrined in this legislation would mean to the people who live in your district?
LAWLER: Again, let's actually focus what's in the bill and not what is the Democrat talking point. The fact is that you have eligibility verification, making sure that people who are not supposed to be collecting Medicaid benefits are no longer receiving those benefits that they're not entitled to. Second is citizenship verification to make sure that illegal immigrants are not collecting Medicaid benefits. Right now, you have 1.4 million illegal immigrants collecting Medicaid benefits. That is wrong, fundamentally.
And third is work requirements. You have nearly 4 million people who are able-bodied adults without dependent children who are refusing to work. They should be trying to get a job, to get employment, to go to school or to volunteer upwards of 80 hours a month - that's about 20 hours a work week - to help get into the workforce, participate in the workforce and ultimately help themselves. They may be able to get a employer-based health care plan long term or be able to purchase on the open market. But the objective here is to sustain this program for the long term for those who need it...
SUMMERS: OK.
LAWLER: ...And those who are eligible for it. And you have seen - and this is important - even with these changes, Medicaid spending is going to go up 24% over the next decade, 24%. So when we're talking about how to strengthen the system, this is not about gutting the system. This is about protecting it for those who need it.
SUMMERS: Congressman, I've got to jump in here. We've got a minute or so left. I know that you've said you're considering running for governor of New York. And whether you do that or you run for reelection to your House seat, there are recent polls out there - including, I'll note, one from Fox News - that suggests that much of the American public is quite skeptical of this legislation. So what is your message to people in your district who do not support this bill?
LAWLER: Well, again, I think a big part of it is the way that it has been framed by, frankly, obviously, the Democrats, where they talk about, you know, cutting Medicaid to provide tax cuts for billionaires. There's no tax cuts for billionaires. This is an extension of existing law...
SUMMERS: But there's also polling from Fox News.
LAWLER: Well, this is an extension of existing law. And the biggest tax cuts in this bill are for the working-class and low-income Americans across the country. So when you talk about the bill, you actually have to understand what is actually in the bill, not what has been talked about by the press or by Democrats and...
SUMMERS: But, Congressman, I'll ask again, do you worry about the political consequences if you support this legislation which among many people is not popular?
LAWLER: Well, again, when people are actually getting tax cuts, it will be extremely popular among the working class and the middle class and the folks who are going to benefit exceptionally well from the provisions within this bill. The seniors who are going to get an enhanced tax deduction and not have to pay taxes on their Social Security as a result...
SUMMERS: All right.
LAWLER: ...That is critically important.
SUMMERS: All right.
LAWLER: That is something that's going to benefit Americans all across this country. Eighty percent of seniors...
SUMMERS: All right, Congressman. Unfortunately, we are out of time. I will have to leave it there. Congressman Mike Lawler, Republican from New York. Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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