AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Two lawmakers say they are resigning from Congress after being accused of sexual misconduct by former staff members. They are Congressman Tony Gonzales, a Republican from Texas, and Congressman Eric Swalwell, a Democrat from California. Gonzales admitted to a sexual relationship with a staffer who later died by suicide. In announcing his departure, he wrote on social media, quote, "there is a season for everything, and God has a plan for us all." And Eric Swalwell was publicly accused of sexual assault by a former staffer and misconduct by several other women. Today another woman accused him of rape. His attorney said that Swalwell, quote, "categorically and unequivocally denies each and every allegation of sexual misconduct and assault that has been leveled against him."
We reached former congresswoman, Jackie Speier, also a Democrat from California, to discuss these developments.
JACKIE SPEIER: He was typical of the profile of some members of Congress who, once there, feel entitled, feel untouchable and can engage in conduct that is illegal and reprehensible.
CHANG: Speier was outspoken about her personal experience with sexual assault on Capitol Hill, and she pushed reforms to increase accountability in Congress. So I asked her...
As these stories have emerged, we keep hearing how Swalwell's behavior was a, quote-unquote, "open secret" on the Hill. And coming from a place like the House of Representatives, can you just help us understand what an open secret might mean in that chamber, how people navigate that?
SPEIER: They turn their eyes away. They feel no responsibility to call out that behavior. And since it's only rumor - they can't actually prove it - everyone sort of minds their own business because it's convenient to mind your own business. And it's not until there's an ethics investigation - and, you know, to get an ethics investigation is typically something that takes a long period of time.
CHANG: You have testified about your own experience as a young congressional staffer. Can you remind our listeners what you went through?
SPEIER: So it was, you know, a situation where the chief of staff and I were working late, and he, you know, came into my office and kind of pushed me up against the wall and kissed me and stuck his tongue in my mouth. And I pushed him back and made a point of never being alone with him again.
CHANG: Did you tell anyone at the time?
SPEIER: No, I did not.
CHANG: Why did you feel you could not?
SPEIER: Because, you know, it was - there was no one there to observe it. While it was, you know, a sexual assault of sorts, you know, I was able to repel him and nothing ever happened again. But it made me aware of how easy it is for persons in power in a congressional setting to feel that they can take advantage of people.
CHANG: Absolutely.
SPEIER: So when the #MeToo movement occurred - this is in 2017 - and I'm thinking, all right, we have got to fix this. So I then joined forces with the conservative Republican congressman from Alabama, Bradley Byrne, who had been an employment lawyer. He recognized the problems. And so we worked together on the legislation. What was stunning to me...
CHANG: Yeah.
SPEIER: ...Was that the original law that was created back in 1995 creating the Office of Congressional Workplace Rights was really a sham because it protected the member of Congress. So...
CHANG: Right, the member of Congress would get a lawyer paid for by Congress - right? - and the accuser would have to hire their own lawyer, right?
SPEIER: Exactly. And then, if there was a settlement, the settlement wouldn't be paid for by the member of Congress. It was paid for by the taxpayers.
CHANG: Exactly.
SPEIER: I mean, it was jaw-dropping. So we worked to change all of that. Now a victim who comes forward is given an attorney to represent her. If there is a settlement, the member is responsible for paying it.
CHANG: But it's been almost 10 years since the height of the #MeToo movement, and the news this week makes it feel like nothing has changed. I mean, is that impression fair, that not much has changed? And if so, why do you think?
SPEIER: What is really fair is to ask the question, why didn't these women feel that they would have the protection they needed to come forward?
CHANG: What do you think is the answer to that question?
SPEIER: Well, I mean, I presume it's because they were fearful of retaliation or being ostracized from getting another job on the Hill. But that's what I'm calling on my former colleagues in Congress to do. Find out why they didn't think that they would be protected enough. And then make sure those are - those protections - in place.
CHANG: Many of these allegations against Eric Swalwell initially gained traction online through social media posts from...
SPEIER: Right.
CHANG: ...Several female content creators who then banded together to collect survivor stories about his behavior. What does it say to you that these women saw this as the route that was more viable for accountability, rather than going through some formal process in Congress?
SPEIER: Well it's heartbreaking for me, since we worked so hard to create those protections. But having said that, you know, I worked on this issue relative to rapes on college campuses and sexual assaults in the military. And what was most effective was when they could go to a website that was private and they could put the information in about their perpetrator and see if there was any other cases where there were similar victims. And what tends to happen when you do that is that you see that there is a behavior that is not just one-off. And you then want to protect other women. That's what happened here as well. When there was, you know, a critical mass of other women, they said, wait. OK, I'm ready now to come forward.
CHANG: Absolutely. So what needs to change at this point?
SPEIER: Well, one of the things that needs to change - and we thought we had fixed it, but the law has got to be amended - is that there is no tolerance for sexual harassment or sexual assault of any of your staff members. That kind of conduct should require you to be expelled from Congress.
CHANG: I mean, it's astonishing that you have to say that out loud, that that...
SPEIER: It is.
CHANG: ...Is a change that must happen. Do you know what I mean?
SPEIER: Yes. Exactly. I mean, when you think of the private sector, a CEO has a relationship with some subordinate, and he's gone, or she's gone. But in Congress, not only are you not gone, you get to continue to serve, so to speak, and collect your check.
CHANG: Former Congresswoman Jackie Speier of California, thank you very much for your thoughts and insights today.
SPEIER: Well, thanks for focusing in on this really important issue. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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