MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
We wanted to get a sense of how all this looks from a Democrat's perspective, so we've called Maria Cardona for this. She's had key positions in Democratic presidential campaigns and administrations. Maria Cardona, good morning. Thanks for joining us.
MARIA CARDONA: Good morning, my friend. Great to be here.
MARTIN: So as we've said, that the president backed out of this planned meeting with Democratic leadership. Do you see any path to avoid a shutdown?
CARDONA: There should be a path to avoid the shutdown, and that path is to come to the table to negotiate. It is astounding that when we are facing a government shutdown in a situation where obviously Republicans need Democratic votes, they have yet to reach out to Democrats to sit down to the table to negotiate. In fact, Trump has said that he doesn't need Democrats. Democrats understand that this is about the American people. This is about restoring health care cuts. This is about fixing a health care crisis that Republicans created when they passed the big, horrible bill that stripped 17 million Americans of their health care and will also strip them of their health care subsidies, skyrocketing the cost for Americans once they understand that, and they will have to pay so much more for health care. So this is about the American people.
MARTIN: Do you think that that is a message that people are actually getting? I mean, both sides are already firing off messages about who would be to blame if the government were to shut down. Do you think that this message is clear enough that people would actually believe that it's Republicans' fault?
CARDONA: I do for a couple of reasons. First of all, Americans understand that Republicans control everything. They control the House, they control the Senate, they control the White House. They have heard Trump say that they don't need Democrats. They have seen that House Speaker Mike Johnson has sent his caucus home, saying, you guys aren't coming back, only until there is a government shutdown. So this is something they're anticipating. They have all the power. And so if there is a government shutdown, they will own that government shutdown because they did absolutely nothing to try to fix the health care crisis that is now going to face Americans. And Americans understand that. They know that this big, horrible bill, which is one of the most unpopular bills ever that we have had, they know that it takes away important health care coverage for Americans, and they see that there's only one party that's fighting to get those protections back.
MARTIN: OK, it...
CARDONA: And so...
MARTIN: I'm sorry, it just seems...
CARDONA: Go ahead.
MARTIN: ...Like there are multiple motivations here. One of them is for Democrats to show strength, as you've just pointed out, as others have pointed out, that people on the base want to see this fight. But the other motivation is a substantive one, which is they - Democrats say they want to deal with Republicans over health care subsidies, as you've just pointed out. We just heard from Deirdre Walsh, as we have heard from others, that shutdowns usually do not result in one side getting the concessions that they want.
Matthew Glassman, who is a political scientist at Georgetown, was quoted in The New York Times saying, "there have been a handful of shutdowns longer than a day in the modern era. In none of them did the party trying to leverage the shutdown win the concessions they were seeking, and, in each case, they also lost the public opinion battle." What convinces you that this would be different?
CARDONA: Two things. First of all, there have already been polls that show that the majority of Americans would blame Republicans for a shutdown because they understand that they own everything. They control everything. The power is in their hands. The second thing is, we've never been in a situation where we're going into a shutdown where millions of Americans are about to lose their health care, and their health care is going to skyrocket. So they understand which party is actually the one that is focused on helping Americans, which party is focused on trying to get that health care crisis back into control, which Republicans are the ones who caused with the passage of this big, horrible bill. This situation has never been seen before.
And so when you have that situation and Republicans control everything, they have refused to negotiate with Democrats, then Americans understand that. It's very simple. If you want a deal that requires both parties to sit down at the table, and you have one party that refuses to come to the table to negotiate, if those negotiations then go haywire and the government shuts down, whose fault is it? It's Democrats that are the ones that are asking for this meeting, demanding this meeting because they know that this has to work out for Americans.
MARTIN: We have 30 seconds. House Democrat leader Hakeem Jeffries says he plans to hold a caucus meeting Monday evening with all House Democrats when Republicans are not even scheduled to be in town. What should that meeting accomplish?
CARDONA: Well, that meeting needs to accomplish that for Democrats to continue to communicate this message, that Democrats are trying. They're trying to negotiate. They are here in town, while Republicans are AWOL - they have gone. So who's the one who's willing to negotiate and make this work? It's the Democrats, not the Republicans.
MARTIN: That is Democratic strategist Maria Cardona. Maria Cardona, thank you so much.
CARDONA: Thank you so much for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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