STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
So how is the United States now approaching this war and the world at large? David Ignatius has been reporting on that. He's a longtime columnist for The Washington Post. He's also the author of numerous novels, which is relevant here because his most recent column suggests a book title for the president's foreign policy - "Why America Slept." David, good morning.
DAVID IGNATIUS: Good morning, Steve.
INSKEEP: In what way is America sleeping?
IGNATIUS: Well, I think in many ways, President Trump simply hasn't taken the threat that Russia poses to Europe and ultimately to the United States seriously enough. He began his second term with what I think of as a false theory of the case. He thought of Vladimir Putin as his friend, in a sense - somebody he had met with six times during his first term. He, according to Bob Woodward, talked with him seven times during his time out of office. So he really did think that when he came in, he could make a deal quickly. And he's been repeatedly frustrated in that, most obviously at the Alaska summit in August. And then again this week, he had hoped to meet with Putin in Budapest and come up with some kind of ceasefire deal. He hoped that they might freeze the forces in place. Didn't happen because the Russians simply, for the time being, are not interested in peace. They're interested in winning. And I think Trump made a characteristic statement about the relationship yesterday. He said, every time I speak with Vladimir, I have good conversations and then they don't go anywhere. And that's - the problem fundamentally is that he's expecting something from Putin that Putin isn't prepared to deliver.
INSKEEP: I want to make what I - underline what I think is your historical reference here. John F. Kennedy wrote a book about England before World War II, "Why England Slept." They didn't see Germany coming. You're saying we don't see Russia coming?
IGNATIUS: I think that we don't understand that Russia is seeking to rebalance Europe. Russia's conducting an increasingly aggressive covert action - hybrid wars, as people sometimes call it - against European countries in NATO with sabotage of facilities, bombs, assassination threats against European arms makers, sending drones into European airspace. It's an increasingly aggressive campaign. It's not - has not hit the U.S. itself yet directly. But Europe is frightened. They see Russia coming at them. They're used to having the United States as their friend and protector. And Trump increasingly seems to want to back away from European conflicts and the Ukraine war in particular. That scares Europeans - should scare all of us.
INSKEEP: Given that they have not targeted the United States directly, as you just said, why do you quote William Burns, the former CIA director who is using the phrase, quote, "great-power suicide"?
IGNATIUS: So Bill Burns, our former CIA director, I think, is looking at the range of things that Trump has done. I tried to list them in my column this morning. He's fired, purged most of the leading national security experts at the FBI and the Justice Department. He has reduced our cyber defenses at a number of agencies, withdrawn regulations that require reporting the cyber threats. He has triggered a significant departure of CIA analysts and operations officers in his efforts to alter his priorities. And I think Burns looks at that and sees declining U.S. ability to act in the world, declining influence with allies and uses that phrase great-power suicide, a self-inflicted wound that month by month is making the United States weaker.
INSKEEP: Let me come back to this question of Russia, though, because, of course, there is a case that President Trump made the effort and is adjusting to reality as he finds out what is possible or not possible. The most recent news, which we're discussing today, is that the United States has imposed sanctions on a couple of Russian oil companies. We don't know fully how that's going to work, but they've at least announced sanctions on Putin. Do you think there is a case that the president is learning?
IGNATIUS: So the sanctions certainly are welcome. You can argue that they're overdue, and we'll have to see the effect. Trump says - and it seems U.S. intelligence supports him - that the Russian economy is in worse shape than most people realize. So maybe turning the screw tighter on oil revenues will make a difference. What the U.S. is still reluctant to do is give Ukraine the kind of weapons that could help it force Putin to pay a much steeper military cost. Zelenskyy - Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the president of Ukraine, came to Washington last week asking for Tomahawk missiles, which would be devastating. Trump said no. So in one way or another, economic or military, the United States is going to have to apply more pressure to Putin. Does - is Trump beginning to understand that? I honestly couldn't say yet. Let's see.
INSKEEP: David Ignatius at The Washington Post, it's always a pleasure to hear from you. Thank you so much.
IGNATIUS: Thank you, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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